C'mon, You Guys, We Can Do Better Than This
This article is in response to the presentation seen here which was given at the Golden Gate Ruby Conference a few weeks ago. It has stirred up quite a few reactions, some of which are here and here.
The first thing I thought of was "I totally could imagine being in that audience." I know exactly how it went. The images went up on the screen, and every guy in there looked sideways at the closest girl (maybe three rows over) to see how she was reacting. Every girl in that audience was thinking "Make it look like you don't care, make it look like you aren't feeling weird about this." My insides are cringing.
I've seen the reactions all over web, "we're rockstars," "we're all adults here," "I'm an R rated person, I'm ok with it." Well I'm not going to sit here and say it's "unprofessional," or "sexist," or "perverse." It was all of those things, but that's been said. I'm going to sit here and say "shame on all of you."
I am a feminist. I support a woman's right to do and act the way she chooses to (and accept the consequences when they are due). I think that we should have the same rights engendered to a man, without question. I do not, however, disregard the difference between the sexes. We are women, you are men. That's why I say "shame on you." Shame on each and every one of you men who sat next to a woman and didn't treat her like a lady. Shame on you for letting the women who were brave enough to come to your convention sit there, and experience the discomfort of having borderline pornographic images on the screen that were intended to arouse (admit it, it wasn't there so you could all study the brilliance of the photographer and his use of light) and stimulate the audience sexually enough to keep them interested. What if that were your sister, or your mother sitting in that situation. What would you want the man sitting next to her do? Would you think it's ok if he laughed and thought it was a "great ploy?"
Some may think it ironic that the girl that has "All marriage proposals must be accompanied by last year's W2" on her blog is criticizing others. I'm not saying it's always inappropriate. Looking at these things in your own homes or as part of your personal recreation is fine. Some women are comfortable around this kind of thing, they let you know by telling you, or joking with you about it. Then it's status quo, and we all can have fun. However, to put a woman you don't know in the situation where she either needs to laugh along or feel like an object is way "Goofus" and not at all "Gallant."
This may make me prude, or old-fashioned, or plain not fun; however, I think we know I'm none of those things. I don't think I'm overreacting either. It is difficult to encourage young girls to get in this field. I get emails all the time. It is scary being "the only girl in your class," and one of three in a room of fifty people. It's scary to ask questions when you're afraid your entire gender will be judged by your grasp of a concept. Asking girls to brave these situations because writing software is fun, and interesting, and exciting is a moot point when faced with these type of stories.
The "deep zoom" Playboy thing at Mixx was a bit tasteless. This situation is just embarrassing. The community really needs to do some introspection if it wants to attract more women to the field. You are saying one thing, and doing another.
PS - I'm only saying this because I freakin love you guys. You have made being a part of this community an awesome time thus far. I only want other girls to have the same experience I have.
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Comments
jim on on 4.29.2009 at 8:56 AM
when i read about this, i cringed. it wasn't because the image was overly offensive. it was more of a "you idiots" flavor of cringing. i am a nerd/developer/geek and this thing simply furthered the stereotype of developers as dudes sitting in their basements surfing porn.
i think imagining your sis, mom, etc in that situation is a good point. i have a good looking 24 year old niece, and imagining her in that situation makes me nuts. how would you feel if that was a pic sis/mom/girlfriend/wife in the slide?!
i have no problem with the pic in general. plenty of both men and women, enjoy that stuff. but in this context, it was simply out of place. you can have fun but consider the audience. what if they used a dude in a thong instead of a woman? i bet there would have been one hell of an uproar.
most dudes have no idea what it's like to be objectified and simply make no effort to see the woman's side. you don't need to be overly PC nor a prude... simply consider the audience, and show some respect.
was the slide necessary to make a point? not from what i can see... so this whole thing is just a dumb move. offended or not, it really perpetuates the bad stereotypes of an already male dominated industry.
and i'm personally tired of being surrounded by dudes all day!
Joel Cochran on on 4.29.2009 at 8:56 AM
We love you too Sara! (And I mean that in a totally plutonic, non-threatening, yet unprudish way...)
Seriously though: I know there are people out there who live without "filters" between their thoughts and the rest of the world, but it really calls the presenter's judgment into question. I'm not questioning the content from a moral stand point, and I am no fan of political correctness, but COME ON! Did he seriously think there would be no fall out?
If he wants to make some point about defying social norms or something else, so be it: just don't bring it into what is probably otherwise a great developer community.
dean collins on on 4.29.2009 at 9:00 AM
Are you freaking kidding me?
What an over reaction, there was nothing wrong with that presentation, i wouldn't show it to a board room but as far as showing it to a ruby developers conference then no probs.
It's interesting that you react only to 'the women' in the presentation....but i saw a few dudes in there as well.
I think it was creative and got the audiences attention to the various concepts.
I for one am more shocked by your comment about W2 induced marriage proposals (but i know how to take a joke).
Cheers,
Dean Collins
www.Cognation.net
Okay on on 4.29.2009 at 9:21 AM
The Ruby/Rails subculture has always tried to buck the perceived geekery of programming by "coding like a rockstar": using frequent profanity, letting everybody surreptitiously know you have sex, blogging about how much you drank after the Rubycon, etc, and in general how you are a programming BAMF.
Rails creator David Hansson for example, likes to use the f-word a lot because he's a straight up OG style BAMF rockstar:
www.loudthinking.com/.../15-potty-mouths
Reminds me of another sort of BAMF by the name of Michael Bolton from a movie every geek has seen:
www.youtube.com/.../watch
Except Bolton was actually likeable.
jim on on 4.29.2009 at 9:24 AM
dean: devil's advocate here.
why wouldn't you show it to a board room? at a previous company where i worked, that would have gone over really well. our CEO was actually quoted telling a very attractive marketing woman at our company that she should wear a cute maid's outfit at the trade show to drum up business. a week later she quit because of the conditions, and the CEO was never called out. he continues to treat women like this (I've since left, but i still hear the stories.) this woman was smart and competent, but she was made to feel like an object because she was good looking.
so why is it acceptable at a ruby developers conference and not a board room? what is different about the board from the developers?
i think that it's a matter of you considering the audience... in my example, which was real, it was acceptable to treat women as an object because they thought it would drum up sales... some women would have laughed and joked about it, really not being offended. but the CEO did not for one minute consider how she felt about it, and it made her feel horrible.
in the ruby conference case, they did not consider the audience. the presenter figured that everyone felt like them and that showing a booty would be fine. but like it or not, some don't like it... some women in the audience may have been objectified in the workplace, and the image may have made them feel that it's happening again. "i'm in a group of dudes that see women as nothing more than eye candy". talk to a woman that has been in that situation and see how she feels.
so, where's the balance? not sure... how do you present something fun without offending someone? well, SOMEONE will always be offended, no matter what. i would personally love it if we could all be crude and joke about everything, but it's simply not the case.
so you have to do your best. unfortunately in this case, i personally think it's a no brainer. tossing that image up on the screen was a dumb thing to do. i understand your point of view, but i don't agree with the example, and i don't agree that this is an overreaction.
Kevin on on 4.29.2009 at 9:39 AM
1) That was actually a very good presentation, all other things aside, it stuck on message and had a coherent/consistent theme through out. More than can be said for lots of presentations.
2) I am actually curious if the presenter actually licensed all of those images, as most do not appear to be "stock" images.
3) This was effectively a marketing presentation, and as such it used what most people would consider standard marketing "tricks". Yes, that includes half-naked people.
For your actual point - I think it is asking a lot to ask that people (not just men, all people) be polite and "Gallant", because well we aren't. As a species we are crude and closed-minded.
Enoc on on 4.29.2009 at 9:43 AM
Good observations. Makes me think of a recent comment by a hair stylist I know lamenting that chivalry is dead. I told her that it's partially a product of gender equality and also of breeding. Culture might be the broader explanation.
Sadly, I have not seen any real evidence that the industry as a whole cares about having more women involved in programming as a profession. In fact, I cannot really think of any purely technical careers where gender balance would seem to be of much benefit. On the other hand, there are plenty of non-technical fields that would greatly benefit from such a balance, Law and Politics being the most obvious. It seems to me that gender differences, which I agree should be celebrated, would not contribute to fundamental improvements in the manner in which technical jobs are carried out, given how formulaic they are, whereas non-technical professions can harness value from a feminine perspective. It boils down to decision-making. If the job involves critical thinking, gender distinctions would seem to matter. If the job involves scientific or mathematical analysis, how would that be approach differently from a male and a female perspective?
Over the course of my career, I have heard plenty of gripes about there being so few women in the programming "arts & crafts", but those comments have always been sexist in nature. The sad fact is that the prevailing attitude among men, based on my observation, is that our culture (not Mother Nature) does not produce many capable, let alone cute, female programmers. The only thing I ever hear complaints about is the dearth of "hot chicks" in our profession. Never mind that I think most programmers are really just complaining about the fact that they get stuck in the back office, where they can't see or interact with sun rays or Sunshine.
jenniebee on on 4.29.2009 at 10:23 AM
Amen, Sarah! And I'm stunned at the comment that tried to suggest that "there were dudes in there as well." The only "dudes" I spotted were in the middle of a gaggle of half-naked women.
The real problem with a presentation like this is that it's sends a clear message to all women who see it that this company considers women to be so inconsequential, it isn't interested in selling to them. It says "women, if you're in IT, check your gender at the door; guys, you can come as you are." What's more, for a person to see that presentation and think that it's a successful approach, that person would have to accept that basic underlying premise.
Good going Sara!
Whiplash on on 4.29.2009 at 11:52 AM
The bottom line is that we must show respect for each other as professionals and human beings. If you have a room with women in attendance why is asking so much to leave out the offensive imagery? Is your personal desire to include it more important than the comfort of your audience? A person on stage giving a presentation is not a "rock star" as so many think these days. You are there to SERVE an audience. And if we're going to serve each other, we need to take just a moment and think about how best to do that.
rearden on on 4.29.2009 at 5:18 PM
I'm totally flabbergasted no one has stated the obvious here: if you see a presentation labeled "CouchDB: Perform like a pr0n star" and you choose to go to it, don't act all surprised when R-rated images are used as props.
Tobin on on 4.29.2009 at 6:47 PM
OK. This is going to be REALLY hard for me to post. I had an initial reaction last night when I read this post, but decided to wait and think this through. After thinking it through, I think I've switched my position slightly in the other direction.
I don't think you are necessarily over-reacting. The slide deck is offensive on a number of points -- many which are obvious and others which have already been pointed out. I won't rehash those items, but please count me in on the list of those slightly upset on those points already made.
That said, some things bother me about getting too infuriated over this until I have more context.
First, I've heard several mention that they are outraged after attending the presentation. Really? I mean, you actually attended a presentation called "perform like a pr0n star" and were then shocked by the content of said presentation? I remember growing up listening to people complain about the content displayed on TV. People would say, "if you don't like it, change the channel. No one is forcing you to watch it." To some degree, I agreed with that philosophy back then -- more on this later though. Then there are those who found blogs, much like yours, that linked the presentation. Many of those blogs also listed the name of the presentation. People clicked and were subsequently upset and "shocked" by the content. Again, I find this logic hard to follow. Of course, there are blogs like yours that point to the slide deck but don't give any warning as to the content. I can see someone being shocked and upset when they stumble across this content by accident. But the question is -- who do they get upset with? Those who created the content or those who linked to it without warning. I'm not attacking you. I hope you know me better than that by now. It is just an interesting question to consider.
Second, I don't know if you realize this but you unintentionally might be upsetting a whole class of people yourself with your viewpoint. Sexual preference and gender identity come into play at some point in this whole "civil liberties" discussion. I won't even get into that discussion but you can make your own conclusions here if you feel like it.
You said that people should be ashamed if they sat next to a lady and didn't say anything. You also say that some women were not offended. How can you know, in this day and age, who is offended and who isn't. What about men who were offended? Can they not also be offended. Should someone in the crowd try to guess which men were offended and speak with them? The point is, that each individual has the right to stand up and leave when they are offended. Again, I'm not attacking you. I'm just wondering what can be done to make the environment comfortable enough for a woman to stop saying "I'm ok with this, i'm ok with this" and instead, get up and walk out -- or speak up for herself.
OK. So I know these points are very controversial. I'm not asking them to be confrontational. In fact, I mean them to start an open dialog about how to appropriately respond in the future. What you propose would work for you, but I know women who would be more offended if I stepped in than if I didn't. So my question is, how can we all get along when something of this nature happens? I honestly think the "shame on you" bit goes a bit far. To blame all men who didn't say anything for not knowing how to react is a bit too broad, I think. I have enough respect for the women and men around me to feel outraged about the situation but let each person make their own decisions. Think about it like this. When my flags go up, should I immediately start asking everyone around me if they are ok with that and ask how they would like me to respond? If I did this would there not be a percentage of people that would think I was being disrespectful to their own ability to respond to the situation?
OK. So while we are discussing how best to respond to these situations perhaps we can also discuss the topic I said I'd get back to. At one point in my life, I subscribed to the "If you don't like it, you don't have to watch/read/view/visit/etc it" mentality. That said, certain things affect a culture so negatively that even "tuning out" doesn't really help. In fact it hurts. Years ago when people were complaining about the content of television shows, they were saying that if we didn't take care of the problem, it would get into the culture and then no one could turn it off. Today, we see that this is somewhat true. The very fact that you are complaining about images that were displayed at a professional conference. Being an advocate of constitutional rights, I don't want to limit free speech. But I also find it hard to advocate for complete free speech when it adversely affects everyone around you.
I hope I've not been offensive. I've done my best to just lay out some questions for discussion so we can all benefit without drawing wild conclusions. I'm open to hearing what the responses are. Thanks for reading my comment that is now longer than the post.
schipps on on 4.29.2009 at 8:49 PM
In response to those who are saying "why would you attend a talk where the word 'porn' was in the title." I have been made aware that everyone was aware of the name of the talk before attending. I've thought about that all day, and truthfully, when I go to .NET conferences people try to jazz up the titles of their talks all the time putting words like "ninja" and "turbo" and "sexy" in the titles. I go to them, and I don't expect to see naked girls and flagrant sexuality. If it was a room where there were other women and we could all look at each other and laugh at the idiocies of the boys in the crowd it would be a LITTLE different, however, that's not what these things are like. You are the only girl, and it's intimidating and disconcerting when there ISN'T stuff like this going on.
jenniebee on on 4.29.2009 at 9:42 PM
I'm sorry, but the "if this professional development event bothers you, don't attend it" argument is just as exclusionary as the presentation itself. Sara is expressing a viewpoint: that presentations like this one make women feel unwelcome at professional development events. I don't see how telling Sara that if she feels that way, she shouldn't attend those events at all is going to make her feel like she's really welcome after all.
Stan Collet on on 4.29.2009 at 9:57 PM
1: On this same blog I see the "Sexiest Female Developer" contest. Isn't this a bit of a mixed message?
2: No amount of bitching is going to change the a&&hats in the Rails community. They thrive on notoriety. You are only promoting their behavior.
Chris on on 4.30.2009 at 9:55 AM
I have to admit that when I was watching the presentation, there was one thing on my mind. Man, this would be the perfect solution for storing my user states!
I'm all for being creative to hold an audiences attention, but I can also see how this would make certain people uncomfortable.
IMHO it is no worse than a beer commercial. The majority of beer consumers are men, so they market in that direction. I don't know many people that are upset by this. It is also a fact that the majority of developers are men, and they will market that way.
Heck, it got us all talking didn't it? Good or bad, we all know what CouchDB is now. I bet some people had never heard of it until hearing about the presentation drama.
DNoe on on 4.30.2009 at 12:33 PM
This is very simple to me. Not sure whey it is so complicated to everyone.
It boils down to taking responsibility.
- Whoever put this together should be ashamed in Sara's (and others) opinion. I, however, should NOT be ashamed. Even if I was there, I had nothing to do with the slide show.
This guy (or group) who made the slideshow obviously claims it. Take any frustrations out on them.
- Whoever booked the speaker at this event should take responsibility for its content to some degree. Shouldn't there have been a review of the material covered, especially when PORN is implied?
- Whoever was offended should take responsibility for their own feelings about the presentation. Did anyone stand up and say "Excuse me sir, but I find your graphics offensive. Would you mind continuing without them?" Or did they get up and leave? Hell they could've gotten up and said "If any one else is offended by this, you are welcome to leave with me and get some lunch!"
- "We can do better than this"
Who is "We"? The developer community? Please... People are drastically different. There is only the facade of an "us" or a "we," especially in this virtual context.
Take for example "we" as Americans. "We" can't agree on a president, a religion, abortion, gay rights... Those differences in perspective occur at almost any level of human organization - state vs city vs town, democrats vs republicans vs liberals, within classrooms, jocks v nerds... Hell even in my small complex of condos, we argue monthly at the HOA meetings!
My point is that certainly there is not much of a "we" when it comes to thousands of geeks communicating from thousands of miles away from each other with thousands of different opinions.
In general, "we" can only be formed with a group of people who agree on a single subject. So, I think it would be reasonable to say "WE believe in not torturing people" if a group of people met and discussed torture and decided unanimously that they did not like the idea.
But I think you cannot say "WE should do better" when you don't know me or what I currently do. Do better than what? Do better than some dumbass' highly unprofessional slideshow? I am already doing that.
For the record, I think that it was definately unprofessional and you wouldn't catch me delivering a message in such a potentially offensive wrapper.
But also for the record, I think that an individual is really only justified in saying "I think that so-n-so is an ass for doing some-thing-a-ma-jig" because that individual doesn't have the right to speak for me without consulting me.
Sara says: "I am a feminist. I support a woman's right to do and act the way she chooses to (and accept the consequences when they are due)."
Danyell says: "I am a humanist. I support a human's right to do and act the way they choose to (and accept the consequences when they are due)."
It's like the whole idea of "reverse discrimination". It doesn't exist. There is only discrimination. Being a feminist or a meninist (?) just means that you lobby more for one sex than the other, thus displaying the sexist favoritism that the group (in general) is promoting against!
I prefer to just be a supporter of equality and a proponent of being responsible for one's own actions, including showing smut in a supposedly professional environment.
I do appreciate your efforts Sara and I agree with the jist of what you are saying. And at least you speak up for what you believe. That is, at the very least, admirable.
Kyle Szklenski on on 4.30.2009 at 3:27 PM
What I find incredible is that anyone finds pictures of half-naked women to be "creative". If this is what passes for "creative" in the Ruby community, then good riddance to it. REAL creativity doesn't require sensationalistic garbage, and chauvinism has no place in society. Worst of all, if this has become (or continues to be from ages past) what marketing considers appropriate, then there's still a much larger issue looming over the entire workplace - regardless of the work being done.
Fellow male feminists: Please do something about this. If you hear a chauvinistic statement in the workplace, act on it. Complain about it. Do everything you can to stop people from doing this garbage.
Lee Dumond on on 4.30.2009 at 3:56 PM
This, on a blog that just hosted a "Sexiest Male Developer Contest" and a "Sexiest Female Developer Contest"? Really???
Lee Dumond on on 4.30.2009 at 4:00 PM
Oh, by the way, I learned a lot of stuff about CouchDB I didn't know before, so thanks for that. ;-)
John Burns on on 4.30.2009 at 6:14 PM
1 step up the ladder, 5 steps back down.
Way to make progress folks.
If your content needs to wake people up with these types of eye candy images (male or female) - maybe you need to re-evaluate your content... it obviously hasn't been prepared and then edited with much thought.
If you want to show pics like this - do it within an art presentation - where they "fit".
Grow up guys and join the business world. The rest of us want our women co-workers to be part of the process. The stereotype that you continue to drag us back into - doesn't help one bit!
---
Note: for the idiots that say they only want "hot women" in our arena - you fail! Your impression of "hot" just barks up the Hollywood glamor mags tree. Do you really think those Hollywood "hot" women care about your silly overweight sit behind a computer in your basement self? (to abuse another stereotype)
In the I.T. and development business WE want smart & involved women who want to help make cool stuff.
FYI
I don't hide behind a fake name - speak your mind and take responsibility for your thoughts and statements!
- Thanks Sarah for letting us spout off here about this subject.
Slackmaster K on on 4.30.2009 at 11:10 PM
Your CSS is showing. On the / page.
Greg on on 5.01.2009 at 12:15 PM
"What an over reaction, there was nothing wrong with that presentation, i wouldn't show it to a board room but as far as showing it to a ruby developers conference then no probs."
Are you kidding me? So when you are visiting the head of small startup, and being considered for top position, I guess this is one thing you would be happy to pull out as an example of your high quality work?
"That was actually a very good presentation, all other things aside, it stuck on message and had a coherent/consistent theme through out. More than can be said for lots of presentations."
Sorry, but I can't say that it really stayed on topic. I was getting too distracted by the flagrant (not subtle) imagery this guy used. He obviously doesn't have subtle taste, but instead needs something to grab your attention.
Last December, I went to a technical as a speaker and brought my wife with me. She joined me during meals and also one of the keynotes, so I can really visualize being at one these events with more than just "a bunch of male geeks". If I saw anything like this, I would have stood up and walked out, going to another presentation instead.
Anonymous on on 5.01.2009 at 3:44 PM
"Shame on each and every one of you men who sat next to a woman and didn't treat her like a lady".
You say that you want equality and dont like reinforcing stereotypes but that is exactly what you're doing. You're expecting special treatment based on gender and at other times asking to be treated no different.
schipps on on 5.01.2009 at 5:40 PM
@Anonymous equality doesn't mean there aren't differences between us. I ask for equal rights, not to be treated as masculine.
@Lee and Stan no one pays to send their employees to GirlDeveloper.com to learn things to bring back to the workplace (at least I sincerely hope not). Also, the Sexiest Female Developer contest was canceled because some found it demeaning.
Josh Stodola on on 5.02.2009 at 2:52 PM
LOL! There's nothing wrong with that presentation, as long as the audience is not a bunch of conservative old people. I could actually stay awake through it. Chill out.
Jason on on 5.05.2009 at 10:05 AM
Your gonna chastise a bunch of sex-starved geeks for snickering at porn references on the same blog where you display a photo of yourself that brags about your mammary glands? What insidious hypocrisy. At least guys admit they are part of the problem....
schipps on on 5.05.2009 at 10:27 AM
@Jason - LOL, what photo? For that matter, what mammary glands?
Jason on on 5.05.2009 at 11:15 AM
Ummm...that big picture up there in the top right. How many male bloggers do you know that manage to include their chest or fanny (only in the literal since I mean) in their profile photo? Let me also point out the suggestion in "Sara is for Rent!". I don't mean to point you out specifically, I have no doubt that you're a lovely girl, but attractive women (yes that includes you) have a lot of advantages over the rest of us which they are more than happy to exploit. Fine. I can live with it - but it makes all this clatter seem hypocritical to me. Let's all laugh at ourselves, not take things so seriously, and get on with the business of life.
jenniebee on on 5.05.2009 at 8:15 PM
Well Sara, I guess the jury's in. You have breasts that show up in pictures. It is not enough to cover them up with clothes, you need to relocate them or turn them invisible or at least wear something more burqua-esque if you want to be able to inform your colleagues that presentations that show women as objects make you uncomfortable. This is because, as a woman whom the Jasons of the world find attractive, you are automatically seen as an object by him, ergo it is hypocritical of you to complain about depictions of women as objects, QED. Also, you should find this situation funny. I'm sure that for Jason, it's a laugh riot.
ranndino on on 5.23.2009 at 11:56 AM
Is there anything in this presentation that we don't see every day in TV shows, movies, commercials and billboards? The answer is "no" so I don't see why everyone is so bent out of shape about this.
The world is full of people these days that get offended by everything all the time. Mostly by anyone who disagrees with them on anything. Chill out and try to enjoy life a little. You've only got one.
ranndino on on 5.23.2009 at 12:07 PM
@ Jenniebee
I love it how you have completely twisted Jason's argument on its head and than proceeded to rip into him while referring to him and all other a-hole men (since that's what you obviously think) as the Jasons of the world...
Let me clear it up for the Jenniebees of the world. Jason's argument, which actually made perfect sense before you twisted it upside down, was simply that the author of this blog chooses to display a profile picture which quite purposely includes her chest draped in a sexy, tight t-shirt.
It is not about whether she has breasts or not, but rather about the fact that she chose to not crop her picture just to show her face like most men would, thus using her sex appeal to attract readers. No different that the maker of the presentation in question.
website analyzer on on 5.29.2009 at 1:38 PM
Ill tell you a joke:)
Do you know how much people know what 10 means?
Those who know binary code and those who dont.
Dont anger of me because I didnt comment on the subject.I remembered this joke when Ive saw your site.
Gene DeClark on on 8.17.2009 at 6:52 PM
I'm a little late to this post. :)
I clicked the link for the presentation, then nearly dove at my mouse to kill the window. I don't know where this was used, but that kind of thing gets you _fired_ where I work. Just viewing it, let alone presenting it. How could anyone think this was a good idea?
I also don't see this as a men vs. women issue, but as an issue of environment. If I go into an adult "book" store, I expect to encounter one kind of content. When I go to a work conference I expect quite another. Mixing the two, to me anyway, seems to do neither justice. I don't know. People think I'm strange for seeing code as an art form, and maybe it's that perspective that makes this seem so tasteless to me. I don't have a problem with porn at all, but I don't want it mixed with my art, and it just plain doesn't need to be on my mind when I talk about code.
software developers on on 10.28.2009 at 8:27 AM
That was inspiring,
Keep up the good work,
Thanks for bringing this up
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From the reports of men and women means you are not a permanent sense of time.
From time to see the men and women every day to see the true meaning, see, and clear, and apparently I were you.
Canvas Prints on on 3.01.2010 at 11:58 AM
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Blog on on 3.01.2010 at 12:01 PM
I don't think that some the steryotypes listed in this blog are really true anymore.